Today is the scheduled kick off for the Massachusetts Medievalist's online summer 2020 reading group on Hell, aka Dante's Inferno + Morrison's Beloved. This morning, the Boston Globe and twitter are full of terrible news and images of the #BostonProtests, riot police and fires downtown and in the Back Bay, some of which could illustrate Dante's poem (photo from bostonglobe.com).
Hi everyone! Excited to be part of this reading group. FYI, I am using a 1998 translation by Elio Zappulla.
I encountered several similarities between Cantos 1-3 and other quest-narratives that I am familiar with. The first would be the classic "invoking of the muses." Both Paradise Lost and The Odyssey begin with the speaker invoking a Muse to aid in (or assume responsibility for?) their storytelling. Canto 2 begins in a similar way: "Oh Muses, lofty Genius, who inscribed/ The things I saw, assist me now, I pray!/ Here will be seen your true nobility!" (II. 7-9). Admittedly, I am not too familiar with this literary strategy, but my assumption is that it is to earn some credibility or legitimacy for the story? Almost as if to doubt the story you are in turn doubting the Muses? If anyone could shed light on this I would appreciate it!
Another major parallel I am seeing between Inferno and the quest-narrative is how Cantos 1-3 have aligned with the "Hero's Journey" archetype of mythology. My 6th graders and I studied this as part of our pre-reading for a unit on the first Percy Jackson novel. There are varying interpretations as to the quantity of stages of the journey and their proper titles, but they all follow a similar trajectory. Already we can see the early stages of the journey in Inferno:
Stage One - Ordinary World: Typically, a traditional "hero's journey" would begin in some representation of the ordinary world. This stage is interesting in Inferno because Canto 1 begins with the character Dante already in a "sunless wood" after having "wandered from the narrow way." Is the narrow way the "ordinary world"? The first line also reads "Halfway along this journey of our life" which could imply the ordinary world (life itself?) in some way.
Stage Two - Call to Adventure: The ordinary world is then interrupted by a "call to adventure." This stage, I am guessing, is represented by Virgil offering to guide Dante through Hell.
Stage Three - Refusal: Next, the hero refuses the task before them. I am seeing this in Canto 2, wherein Dante experiences overwhelming fear from the impending journey, which is eventually calmed by Virgil.
Stage Four - Mentor/Helper: There is almost always a mentor to assist the hero on their journey. This is clearly Virgil; however, it is interesting that Dante's character is immediately aware of the mentorship from his study of Virgil in his waking life.
Stage Five - Crossing the Threshold - There is then a point of no return for the epic hero, which must be crossed. I would say this would be the Gates of Hell.
I'm interested to see how Inferno adheres to or diverges from the "Hero's Journey" as our reading continues. I'm also curious to see how the character of Dante stacks up to the traits of the typical "epic hero" that is associated with the hero's journey.
Hello everyone! Some amazing stuff here! I'm fascinated by this numerology stuff and will be very interested to see if we can see some matching numerology in Beloved which also has a ton of numerology (including the number 33 I think. I haven't read it in a few years). As for his age, Beowulf and Gawain, being so young, are ready for adventure and seek glory in their early years. they are unafraid of death. In much of European folklore, young age is tied with inexperience and lack of caution. Maybe for Dante, it would be unrealistic for a younger person to have the caution necessary for fear. This sounds like kind of a stretch at first but if you put Beowulf or Gawain in Dante's place going up that mountain, they would fight the animals. I think this is important to note because the trials Dante faces in his quest are not those of brute strength and physical force like Gawain and Beowulf but of soul and mind. He needs that caution and that fear of death in order to characterize the kind of journey he is about to pursue. This is Dante telling us that we're not dealing with the physical monsters of older quests, we're dealing with mental monsters. However, Virgil's presence as a guide also makes it clear that this is still a quest on the same level of the Aeneid; it has the same urgency.
Thanks, Samantha! Such a great point that character-Dante has some wisdom/experience that Beowulf etc simply do not - D's are spiritual demons/monsters. Fine ideas for our discussion -
After spending time in whatever circle of Hell includes computer sign ins, I can post what I had planned to (and which disappeared into another circle of Hell about an hour ago).
I started with a translation by Mark Musa, which was published in 1995. My paperback copy may be that old , and smells old (and not in a good, "Ah, the smell of a bookstore!" kind of way). I was prepared to continue however, but the dangling participles --one in the intro and one in the Second Canto-- have distracted me. I await eagerly the translation of Pinsky which is on its way. Bilingual no less; this is gonna be a big book.
But I digress.
I am struck in that third line: "I had wandered off from the straight path." What wander? What path? A serious misstep, to result in such a journey, with such a Sage as Virgil.
Dante's world had different views of health in mind and body (and spirit) than we do in this day. Was this some kind of moral injury? Serious depression? PTSD? Schizophrenia?
In our day, regaining mental health can be a big journey too, and many of us make it with the help of a good therapist, clergyperson, or Sage in our own lives. (Sometimes with medication, too, but that is a whole 'nuther essay).
Sometimes that journey to the self involves looking back, within, and forward, using stories and comparisons. It looks as if Dante's path will use similar methods, couched in the terms of the 14th C. We will be translating more than words, this Summer.
I am looking forward to this! Wish we could be in the same room.
This is a shadow of the deep literary essay that disappeared into a circle of Hell. Now I will save it before I send it!
Well, Family Doc, you've brought up the important question of the differences between how 21stc USA and 14thc Italy talk about what are probably in many ways the same things. There's lots of good critique about the ways that "religious" items for Western European medieval people are now considered psychological, emotional, cultural, social etc. items. Think about monks and nuns who fasted excessively (sometimes discussed now in terms of eating disorders) or who had visions (ditto: schizophrenia or other mental illness). Dante presents us with a crisis of faith, a deviation from the path, but our view from 2020 sees it as a crisis with intellectual, emotional, social, political aspects as well as religious. I think it's too easy to say that St Catherine of Genoa had an eating disorder, but it's also too easy to say that Dante the character has simply lost his faith and needs to get it back. He's on many journeys simultaneously - to Self, to knowledge, to faith, and more.
I am a little late to the game here, but I am here none the less.
As I was reading Cantos 1-3, what stood out to me were the differences between Dante and the other man-on-a-quest characters that we know. A lot of what Samantha said were also things that stood out to me. Dante differs from, than say a Beowulf, because of his caution and his awareness. In these 3 cantos, Dante is confused, humble and afraid. He even mentions at one point being fearful that he had disappointed Virgil. These character traits don't align with those of most quest-takers who are typically headstrong, stubborn and blindly brave. Perhaps Dante's age and life experience plays into this as Samantha mentioned.
I think Dante's humbleness could tie into what Colin mentioned about the muses. Dante perhaps calls upon the muses to accurately describe the journey because he does not trust himself to do so accurately. In Pinsky's translation, it states: "O Muses, O genius of art, O memory whose merit/ Has inscribed inwardly those things I saw--". Colin's point about invoking the muses to make the story more credible seems legitimized by this version of the text.
Kristen's point is resonating a lot with me right now - looking for a hero who is candid about his emotional state: confused, humble, and afraid. That seems a lot more useful than blustering arrogance, esp in early June 2020.....
Hi everyone! Excited to be part of this reading group. FYI, I am using a 1998 translation by Elio Zappulla.
I encountered several similarities between Cantos 1-3 and other quest-narratives that I am familiar with. The first would be the classic "invoking of the muses." Both Paradise Lost and The Odyssey begin with the speaker invoking a Muse to aid in (or assume responsibility for?) their storytelling. Canto 2 begins in a similar way: "Oh Muses, lofty Genius, who inscribed/ The things I saw, assist me now, I pray!/ Here will be seen your true nobility!" (II. 7-9). Admittedly, I am not too familiar with this literary strategy, but my assumption is that it is to earn some credibility or legitimacy for the story? Almost as if to doubt the story you are in turn doubting the Muses? If anyone could shed light on this I would appreciate it!
Another major parallel I am seeing between Inferno and the quest-narrative is how Cantos 1-3 have aligned with the "Hero's Journey" archetype of mythology. My 6th graders and I studied this as part of our pre-reading for a unit on the first Percy Jackson novel. There are varying interpretations as to the quantity of stages of the journey and their proper titles, but they all follow a similar trajectory. Already we can see the early stages of the journey in Inferno:
Stage One - Ordinary World: Typically, a traditional "hero's journey" would begin in some representation of the ordinary world. This stage is interesting in Inferno because Canto 1 begins with the character Dante already in a "sunless wood" after having "wandered from the narrow way." Is the narrow way the "ordinary world"? The first line also reads "Halfway along this journey of our life" which could imply the ordinary world (life itself?) in some way.
Stage Two - Call to Adventure: The ordinary world is then interrupted by a "call to adventure." This stage, I am guessing, is represented by Virgil offering to guide Dante through Hell.
Stage Three - Refusal: Next, the hero refuses the task before them. I am seeing this in Canto 2, wherein Dante experiences overwhelming fear from the impending journey, which is eventually calmed by Virgil.
Stage Four - Mentor/Helper: There is almost always a mentor to assist the hero on their journey. This is clearly Virgil; however, it is interesting that Dante's character is immediately aware of the mentorship from his study of Virgil in his waking life.
Stage Five - Crossing the Threshold - There is then a point of no return for the epic hero, which must be crossed. I would say this would be the Gates of Hell.
I'm interested to see how Inferno adheres to or diverges from the "Hero's Journey" as our reading continues. I'm also curious to see how the character of Dante stacks up to the traits of the typical "epic hero" that is associated with the hero's journey.
LOVE the Percy Jackson + archetypal connections! Great demonstration of the way the traditional stages map onto the first three cantos--
Hello everyone! Some amazing stuff here! I'm fascinated by this numerology stuff and will be very interested to see if we can see some matching numerology in Beloved which also has a ton of numerology (including the number 33 I think. I haven't read it in a few years). As for his age, Beowulf and Gawain, being so young, are ready for adventure and seek glory in their early years. they are unafraid of death. In much of European folklore, young age is tied with inexperience and lack of caution. Maybe for Dante, it would be unrealistic for a younger person to have the caution necessary for fear. This sounds like kind of a stretch at first but if you put Beowulf or Gawain in Dante's place going up that mountain, they would fight the animals. I think this is important to note because the trials Dante faces in his quest are not those of brute strength and physical force like Gawain and Beowulf but of soul and mind. He needs that caution and that fear of death in order to characterize the kind of journey he is about to pursue. This is Dante telling us that we're not dealing with the physical monsters of older quests, we're dealing with mental monsters. However, Virgil's presence as a guide also makes it clear that this is still a quest on the same level of the Aeneid; it has the same urgency.
Thanks, Samantha! Such a great point that character-Dante has some wisdom/experience that Beowulf etc simply do not - D's are spiritual demons/monsters. Fine ideas for our discussion -
Link to an article reviewing a book about Dante that you might find interesting: https://www.wsj.com/articles/dantes-bones-review-tales-of-the-tomb-raiders-11590759802
After spending time in whatever circle of Hell includes computer sign ins, I can post what I had planned to (and which disappeared into another circle of Hell about an hour ago).
I started with a translation by Mark Musa, which was published in 1995. My paperback copy may be that old , and smells old (and not in a good, "Ah, the smell of a bookstore!" kind of way). I was prepared to continue however, but the dangling participles --one in the intro and one in the Second Canto-- have distracted me. I await eagerly the translation of Pinsky which is on its way. Bilingual no less; this is gonna be a big book.
But I digress.
I am struck in that third line: "I had wandered off from the straight path." What wander? What path? A serious misstep, to result in such a journey, with such a Sage as Virgil.
Dante's world had different views of health in mind and body (and spirit) than we do in this day. Was this some kind of moral injury? Serious depression? PTSD? Schizophrenia?
In our day, regaining mental health can be a big journey too, and many of us make it with the help of a good therapist, clergyperson, or Sage in our own lives. (Sometimes with medication, too, but that is a whole 'nuther essay).
Sometimes that journey to the self involves looking back, within, and forward, using stories and comparisons. It looks as if Dante's path will use similar methods, couched in the terms of the 14th C. We will be translating more than words, this Summer.
I am looking forward to this! Wish we could be in the same room.
This is a shadow of the deep literary essay that disappeared into a circle of Hell. Now I will save it before I send it!
--Trish Clancy
(Full disclosure: Family Doc. Could you tell?)
Well, Family Doc, you've brought up the important question of the differences between how 21stc USA and 14thc Italy talk about what are probably in many ways the same things. There's lots of good critique about the ways that "religious" items for Western European medieval people are now considered psychological, emotional, cultural, social etc. items. Think about monks and nuns who fasted excessively (sometimes discussed now in terms of eating disorders) or who had visions (ditto: schizophrenia or other mental illness). Dante presents us with a crisis of faith, a deviation from the path, but our view from 2020 sees it as a crisis with intellectual, emotional, social, political aspects as well as religious. I think it's too easy to say that St Catherine of Genoa had an eating disorder, but it's also too easy to say that Dante the character has simply lost his faith and needs to get it back. He's on many journeys simultaneously - to Self, to knowledge, to faith, and more.
Late? I'll show you late!
Hi everyone,
I am a little late to the game here, but I am here none the less.
As I was reading Cantos 1-3, what stood out to me were the differences between Dante and the other man-on-a-quest characters that we know. A lot of what Samantha said were also things that stood out to me. Dante differs from, than say a Beowulf, because of his caution and his awareness. In these 3 cantos, Dante is confused, humble and afraid. He even mentions at one point being fearful that he had disappointed Virgil. These character traits don't align with those of most quest-takers who are typically headstrong, stubborn and blindly brave. Perhaps Dante's age and life experience plays into this as Samantha mentioned.
I think Dante's humbleness could tie into what Colin mentioned about the muses. Dante perhaps calls upon the muses to accurately describe the journey because he does not trust himself to do so accurately. In Pinsky's translation, it states: "O Muses, O genius of art, O memory whose merit/ Has inscribed inwardly those things I saw--". Colin's point about invoking the muses to make the story more credible seems legitimized by this version of the text.
Kristen's point is resonating a lot with me right now - looking for a hero who is candid about his emotional state: confused, humble, and afraid. That seems a lot more useful than blustering arrogance, esp in early June 2020.....